If you are tired of me going back and forth about which embryos to transfer into Cynthia, then stop reading. And I won't be offended, not to worry, I am sick of it myself.
The clinic where they have the program of 5 donor eggs for 10K is a lot more flexible in terms of transferring to a carrier. They just want a regular contract signed by the two parties and some simple bloodwork. The transfer and monitoring is included with the purchase of 5 frozen eggs, they also guarantee at least one blast. If the 5 eggs do not yield a blast, they would thaw some more eggs until you get a good quality one.
In terms of attorney fees, I could just download a generic GC contract online, we all sign it, notarize it and that's it. That will save us about 4K in attorney fees that the clinic in Seattle requires for both parties. We will also save 3.5K for the transfer and monitoring fees. We are now down to 7.5K, if I include the shipping of my embryos from CC.RM we will be down to 8K at least.
With that in mind, add another 2K, I can do donor eggs.
With Option 1 we are looking at transferring my embryos, in other words, my eggs and donor sperm into Cynthia's uterus.
Option 2 would be donor eggs, Dan's sperm and Cynthia's uterus.
In other words, what is more likely to be the problem, Dan's sperm or my eggs? I think the consensus would be my eggs.
The only thing is that my embryos at CC.RM have been tested and they are normal. The batch that we might create with the frozen eggs will not be tested and Dan has bad sperm...
We can transfer one of each but she is 5'1, what if they both take? I don't think I can do it.
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yikes...that's a tough one. What does your gut tell you? I know it's cliche but I would go with that. Close your eyes...what do you see?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm 5ft, 100 lbs (due to meds, used to only be 90) and I'm planning on transferring two again. I think our bodies will naturally only take what they can handle. What are her thoughts/opinions on putting in one vs two?
Sorry, I'm asking more questions than actually providing any direction :).
Thanks! She was originally excited about trasnferring 2, but I was very protective of her and told her we should do just one and mentioned the possible complications. How could I ask her to put back two now? :(
DeleteMy friend is 5'2' and transferred two and she did fine, but she was in her thirties plus they were her babies, with a GC I don't know...
And when I close my eyes I just see a HUGE question mark, lol
DeleteOkay so here are my 2c much of which is from my own experince.
ReplyDeleteIf it were me, I would look at this from a "known risk" vs "unknown risk". The CCRM embies are "known" (a)you already have them (b)they are chromosomally normal which is a HUGE plus (c) You can be assured of the cycle schedule etc for C.
With the DE route there are many more unknowns (IMHO) (a) You will have to worry about eggs unfreezing properly, whether they fertilize, whether there will be enough to grow to Day5 etc(b)There is no guarantee that your one blast from DE will be chromosomally normal since even young women can have chromosomally abnormal eggs (which is why even with DE I wanted to do genetic testing) (c) Even if they don't get a blast the first time, C will still have to go through 6 weeks of shots/meds not sure if there will be blast to put in. (Rememeber I had that DE cycle when the 23 year old proven donor eggs were terrible and crapped out at Day3.)
Plus by putting one CCRM embie at a time it reduces the risk to C, and in case something does not work, you still have one pefect embie left to try with. The DE option should be a back up plan since there are so many more unknowns there as compared to CCRM embie. Of course, if you did not have your normal embies then DE would be the optimal route.
Okay, now you can tell me to shut up ;-)
I know, I know, but what if Schoolie and all these other doctors are right and it's my eggs. What if they don't have that mitochondria they talk about? I know there are risks involved with donor eggs too, I hate this! :( Thanks so much for your input, never shut up :)
DeleteCan you do ccs testing on the blast/s they will give you? Do they do that? If not, can you ship the embie to say SCRC and have it tested? I am only thinking of checking all the boxes before the transfer? Just a thought. I am 5'2 by the way (so size has no effect on a twin pregnancy) it is more risky than a singleton though.... xoxo
ReplyDeleteThe clinic doesn't test them. I could send them to SCRC but that means an extra freeze. The eggs are already frozen, there is a first thaw for fertilization, then the biopsy, freeze and then another thaw... Then we will have to pay 7K for CCS and the transfer at SCRC, at that price we could probably go with a fresh donor egg cycle and I don't think Dan will be into spending that much money.
DeleteBTW, I was referring to you in my response to Babydustpls :)
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DeleteI think I'd work off facts - it seems to pull me through. ( hopefully you won't find my suggestions heartless). So it it goes....
ReplyDeleteMost GC's become pregnant - 80% are pregnant with in 3 cycles - given there are no infertility problems ( deminished Oviarian reserve or Male infertility). Many successful GC cycles are the result of a DE cycle ( my current clinic says over 50%) . I think given that you GC lies outside of the typical age for a GC it is likely to take 2-3 cycles and many clinics will not cycle the same GC more than 3 times I'd likely go the DE cycle with Dans sperm. But with MI ( he has sperm issues right?) if that isn't successful then you might try both DE and DS for one last attempt. Everyone says the problem is more likely the egg than the sperm - I've been quoted an 80/20 split before.
But then ever MD says there isn't that much information about fragmented sperm. Once we moved to a GC we decided to remove our selves from the picture - when we had good eggs , we had lousy sperm and as the sperm got better they blamed my eggs! Frozen eggs are a bit more challenging to work with and most clinics give 5-6 eggs and my clinic suggested buying a min of 8 basically a wash if you need another cycle ( but my clinic didn't produce frozen eggs) .
These are such hard choices and I think you start where your most comfortable - I wouldn't let the difference of a few thousand dollars stand in my way after all you've spent all ready.
Yes, we may have to do several cycles, specially since we are only transferring 1 at a time, gosh the thought of doing this over and over makes me sick already. Thank you for your thoughts, I immensely appreciate it. This particular donor has an extra 3 eggs frozen already and the purchase of all 8 will be 15K. I think I need more information about this program than the coordinator is giving me. Maybe I'll book an appointment with the doctor... I have been given 55% success with frozen eggs from the clinic and 65% with fresh eggs (which is 20K per cycle).
DeleteNot to give you another thought, but I went to RBA in Atlanta, they pioneered vitrification and egg freezing (Dr.Nagy). I did DE with frozen eggs, it cost $16,500, they guarantee two blasts available for transfer or a free cycle (they really do stand behind the guarantee ). We had six eggs thawed, all of them fertilized & made it to blasts, we transferred one. I now have a daughter and we are trying for number two. The thaw rate is in the 95%. I was forty five when I gave birth to my full term baby. I wish you the best of luck, it took us close to seven years to have our baby, hang in there, one way or another you will start your family. Best, Lynne
ReplyDeleteWe looked at frozen DE eggs ( RBA and NW cryobank) basically the difference between fresh and frozen is that a fresh cycle typically produces enough blast for several transfers and has a higher chance of pregnancy. My clinic warned me that many clinics don't really stand behind their guarantee exactly as written - meaning if you have one blast then you don't get six new eggs you might just get 3 or your donor might not have more available or the wait time can be longer to recycle and they will sometimes require a different make up ( sperm, egg or uterus). If you read NW cryo's guarantee it excludes MI. My doctor explained it like this you buy 6 egg , typically 4 thaw , 3-4 fertilize and 1 or 2 make it to a blast . I'd meet with the doctor and tell his your issues, MI and your GC's age and see what he think will make your cycle successful . If you can get everything in writing for your guarantee then I think frozen eggs for 10k for 2 blast sounds like a great place to start.
ReplyDeleteAlso make sure they allow you to select a single eymbrow transfer with your current GC - I believe that atlanta RBA the guarantee was not valid if the MDs suggestion were not followed an they always transferred 2 blast if available .
Best of luck - your getting closer everyday!!
I'll look into RBA, thank you!
Deletekeep thinking out loud here- it helps!
ReplyDeleteif you do go DE, would you consider doing DS as well to completely take all of the suspicious culprits out of the equation? is it your eggs? doesn't matter! dan's sperm? doesn't matter! and you are using a GC, so, i mean, there is something to that idea.
once you get pregnant, you are going to forget about the genetics. you are already OK with DE, so it is not important to you *now*. dan is already ok with DS. why not go all the way? pick a fabulous set of donors, and transfer ONE at a time! no need to put your GC into a possible high risk pregnancy, especially with DE/DS embryos. best case scenario is you get a singleton on the first try with some to freeze.
one other thought is that if you do choose to try your CCRM blasts first, you are either going to have success, or not, which will finally either rule out or in your eggs as the culprit. there may be something to that. also, can they be shipped to the DE clinic? at least that would save you on the legal fees.
you're getting there... the right decision will come. you are so close!
Dan is having a hard time with donor sperm. And if he has to go the donor sperm route, he wants it to be my eggs, he just wants some connection to the baby. I know we may not get what we want, but it's a bit hard for him.
DeleteRBA patient, here areto some facts: they recommend one blast and not two blasts for transfe, they guguarantee two available for transfer. I have a friend who received the guarantee. Almost everyone has at least two to freeze and they guarantee one.
ReplyDeletei forgot to ask, and i seem to have forgotten reading it here, but how old is cynthia?
ReplyDelete46 y/o
DeleteI would do your own eggs, donor sperm, hands-down... As another commenter said, those embryos have been tessted and they are a known quantity... also, re: Dan's fragmentation, I really do think that the sperm are the problem. Also, you HAVE those embryos, so you can transfer ASAP... If, g-d forbid, it doesn't work, you'll have time to research donor eggs. I really think that this is the way to go!!
ReplyDeleteMANY hugs to you - this is a hard process, and I'm glad that you have this forum for feedback, but try not second-guess yourself too much!
Thank you! I'll try!
DeleteI tend to agree with Sunflower and Sarah above - I think I would choose the 'known' over the 'unknown'. I think this path may help eliminate some variables. If your normals do not result in a pregnancy with a GC then maybe it will be easier to buy the 'bad egg' argument. And then you can move more confidently to the DE route? Just my thoughts...you will do what's right for you - trust your instincts.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the GC contract, you may want to at least consult with an attorney. The reason I say that is because in my state (Georgia) the attorney will have to petition the court at a later date to make sure your name is on the birth certificate. In fact, our clinic wouldn't even take the contract unless it was signed off from an attorney.
ReplyDeleteRegarding height and weight, I can tell you from being in India (where most women are much smaller than they are here), that twins are common and not a problem. At 5'3, I'm still taller than a lot of women in certain areas. Also keep in mind that twins are not the same size x2 as a single baby. The bigger issue is if you personally feel you could handle twins. The doctor should be able to tell you if he/she feels like it would be a problem.
Re: donor eggs vs your good embies? That's tough. I don't know enough about fragmented sperm to know what that can cause with regards to odds once the embryo has been formed (or abnormalities). I do know that at our age (women) we carry a much higher miscarriage rate due to our eggs. Still, if it were me, that would be hard to give up my embies, but I probably would since it's more important to my husband to have a biological link. Plus I already have a (adult) son. I know this doesn't help you one bit. Sorry.
I can totally handle twins and I have always dreamed about having them, I just think it's a lot to ask of someone... Maybe.. I will talk to the doctor and see what they say. She is 46 and at more risk for gestational diabetes and complications. I am trying to put her first in all of this, I owe it to her, she is being so incredibly kind, I'm more aware of complications and as much as I would LOVE to have twins I just have to think how hard it could potentially be on her.... But I'm open to still give it more thought.
DeleteYou are helping me and thanks for the info on the attorney situation.
I wish I had something better to contribute than "I'm here and thinking about you." If she's willing to do a few cycles, you could start with Plan A (your eggs) and then go to Plan B if that doesn't work. I think Dan is the lynchpin here. If he will struggle too much with a baby with no genetic link, I might try your eggs first. If the bottom line goal is just a baby, any baby (I think that's how you might be feeling - understandably!) then I would go with whatever is most likely to get you there. But Dan has to be on board.
ReplyDelete*hugshugshugs*
It's such a tough decision and I don't think there are easy answers. If it were me, my inclination would be to try my own embryos first. As others have said, you already know that they've tested normal. And if they don't take, then you would know it's likely an egg issue and that might help give you some closure in that area.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, the decision has to be what feels right for you and Dan. Whatever you decide will be the right course of action. Trust yourself!
i understand what you're saying about putting her first but i'd discuss with a dr not just kind of think and decide on ur own
ReplyDeletei'm 5'1, 5 months along with twins and loving it so far...cant speak for how the rest will go but dont think height/weight plays much of a factor...now if age may thats something to discuss with the dr
would be great if you could transfer one of ur tested eggs as well as one of the DE!
i totally agree on talking to a consulting perinatologist about this (the twins thing) before the transer... the clinic should be able to refer you for a phone appointment. between your GC being considered AMA, and the fact that twins, even though some carry without a hitch, are considered high risk. see what they say, and go from there.
ReplyDeletei always forget that dan is sensitive about the DS and wants one or both of you to have the genetic link. i totally support his feelings on this, as of course it is a completely personal set of feelings and opinions about donor anything. sometimes i just get SO caught up in wanting this so badly for the both of you, i let my cheering get ahead of my better advice ;)
RBA sounds fantastic! The vitrification stats and fert stats are very promising. And I know that you are looking for the cheaper option, but If you could find the money I would do both options, I would transfer one of your donor sperm embies to your sister in law and I would transfer two donor egg embies to you and be done with it. I'm just thinking of the most aggresive route possible for you to end this infertility nightmare and you could get your twins this way too. xoxoxoxo
ReplyDelete